A snowpack to cancel drought?, connecting cattle to cropland, farmers helping farmers

In this episode of Between the Rows, we talk to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada agroclimate specialist Trevor Hadwen about how the snow we’ve seen on the prairies so far doesn’t spell the end of drought; Karen Klassen, an organizer of a new grazing exchange, talks about an initiative to bring livestock back onto grain farms; and Canadian Cattlemen editor Lisa Guenther talks with mental health advocate Gerry Friesen about a new mental health program for farmers. Hosted by Gord Gilmour.

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Gord Gilmour: [00:00:06] Hello and welcome to another edition of Between the Rows, the podcast of Glacier Farm Media. I’m your host this week, Manitoba cooperator editor Gordon Gilmour. On this show, we’ll talk to Karen Klassen, a Manitoba farmer, about a new grazing exchange that aims to bring livestock back onto grain farms

Karen Klassen: [00:00:27] This year with the fertilizer prices. To be honest, I’m looking for places I don’t have to put in synthetic fertilizers. And this is a great way to do it and the crops that I am going to able to grow this year on the land that was grazed last year, I’m going to be able to way, reduce the amount of fertilizer I put on there.

Gord Gilmour: [00:00:51] The Food and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada agro climate specialist Trevor Hadwen will tell us about how the snow we’ve seen is good news, but it doesn’t mean the drought is over,

Trevor Hadwin: [00:01:03] That that buildup of drought has really caused a lot of issues and we’re not going to get out of it real

Gord Gilmour: [00:01:09] Quick. And Canadian Cattlemen’s Lisa Guenther joins us with a report on a new mental health program for farmers. It aims to fill a gap in available services. She interviewed organizer Gerry Friesen.

Gerry Friesen: [00:01:23] So I envision that that that farmers can reach out on their own, but I can also envision that these farm stress lines will be referring farmers to our program.

Gord Gilmour: [00:01:34] But first, a message from our sponsor.

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Gord Gilmour: [00:02:12] And we’re back. You’re listening to Between the Rows, the podcast of Glacier Farm Media. I’m this week’s host, Gord Gilmour. Many years ago, the Canadian prairies were home to the bison. These large herbivores were a key component of the region’s nutrient cycle. Today, they’re long gone, and most of those acres are now cropland. But a pilot project in Manitoba hopes to once again introduce more grazing this time of domestic livestock. The Manitoba Grazing Exchange, a joint venture of the Manitoba Organic Alliance and the Manitoba Forage and Grassland Association, hopes to be a clearinghouse connecting livestock producers looking for grazing land and annual crop producers seeking some of those benefits from livestock on their land. Grain grower and Manitoba Organic Alliance executive director Karen Klassen joins us now. Karen, thanks for joining us today.

Karen Klassen: [00:03:17] All right, thanks so much for having me, Gord.

Gord Gilmour: [00:03:19] So why is getting livestock onto grain land important? What are the benefits and do they outweigh the challenges of it?

Karen Klassen: [00:03:27] Those are great questions. There are lots of benefits to getting livestock back, livestock back onto grain land. Some of the things that we’re finding is just the overall nutrient cycling for organic farmers. Usually, people are putting in a green what’s called a green manure crop or a cover crop once every few years just to get some nitrogen back into the in the land and other soil fertility issues. So when you tell it back in, you get that crop residue back in and you get from the legumes nitrogen back in. But when you graze it with animals, you will get them to do some of the work of processing and cycling the nutrients. And then you get all the other soil benefits as well. That comes to have comes with having manure on your land. So you’re going to get bring back the dung beetles, other biodiversity aspects. So lots of things in the soil and outside the soil as well. So that’s one of nutrients is a big, big thing. It’s also a good weed control measure. You know, cows and other animals will really graze a lot of stuff that that we don’t necessarily think of. So it’s a great way to manage your weeds, especially in the era of herbicide resistance. And for organic farmers, a lot of times weed control is is mostly just through tillage. So that brings me to it’s actually a great way to reduce your tillage this year.

Karen Klassen: [00:04:49] I don’t think anyone felt great being out there with a cultivator or tilling tilling the land in the drought. And so when you had the animals on the land, you don’t actually have to incorporate it back in. It’ll take a little bit longer for the nutrients to to be used for the next sort of subsequent years for crops. But it is. The soil fertility is there. It just takes a little bit longer. But you’re building soil health and so many other benefits that it’s it’s definitely worth worth the wait. So yeah, some of the challenges for like, I’m a grain farmer as well, and I understand a lot of grain farmers are not, don’t have livestock and don’t really want to manage livestock. And that’s exactly how I feel. So the challenges are finding good partnerships and ways to get livestock back on the land that don’t involve us necessarily getting into the livestock business. And so for myself, I actually happen to chat with my neighbor who has cattle. And so we have we’ve had a partnership for a couple of years, and that’s what we’re hoping that this website, the Manitoba Grazing Exchange does for people just sort of facilitates that conversation because some of the challenges that can be involved with with bringing livestock back on the land can be overcome. If you make the right relationships and you make the right partnerships through this.

Gord Gilmour: [00:06:11] And can you tell us a little bit about those relationships and partnerships? What are some of those arrangements between farmers look like?

Karen Klassen: [00:06:18] Yeah, there can be so many different arrangements. We so for example, for my for myself, my neighbor has the cattle and he actually he lives a mile away. So him and his son come every day onto our land and move the cattle and they check the water, check the fencing. To be honest, we actually haven’t had any escapees. So it’s been from that point of view, pretty, pretty simple. But because they’re close by, they actually manage all the all the livestock components to to our arrangement. But for other people, if you’re traveling a little bit farther, perhaps or have different arrangements, or maybe there are grain farmers that are people with land who actually want to manage their livestock a bit so that those arrangements will be very different depending on what your specific situation is. So there are some people who the landowner would be managing the the livestock integration and the livestock moving and and fencing and watering and all of that. So there’s lots of different ways that this can. This can work. So that’s why we’ve just we’ve set up this meet and greet and are giving people resources to go ahead and figure out the the nitty gritty and the details from themselves. We had we launched this last week at the Prairie Organic Livestock Mini Conference, which was had farmers throughout the prairies, and we actually got this idea from South Dakota. So the South Dakota Grazing Exchange was the original website where we found this and that was put up by the South Dakota Soil Health Coalition a few years ago. So we had a farmer who actually talked through what he was doing, and again, he had even in two years, he had totally different arrangements with the two two landowners that he was working with. He was a cattle cattle producer and he, yeah, had very different arrangements, cost share wise, even like the financial transactions and and even the relationship between. The landowner and himself, so you can just see there’s lots of different potentials, and we’re just helping you sort of get that started and giving you some resources to get those relationships started.

Gord Gilmour: [00:08:26] So the Grazing exchange is really just sort of the clearing house, the coffee shop where the farmers would meet and work it out themselves. Now is it. You have spoken a lot about organic producers, but it’s not limited just to organic producers.

Karen Klassen: [00:08:40] Absolutely. No, no. This is for everyone, anyone with land. Essentially, you don’t have to be a grain farmer or anything. The reason why we, we anticipate it will be the most benefit to to people with grain is because it is that I mean, this year, so I’m a farmer, I have both organic and conventional land as well, and we’re doing this on all of our land, actually, not just the organic land, because there are so many benefits and so many people are interested in regenerative farming practices. And this is a definite a key key part of regenerative farming. And this year, with the fertilizer prices, to be honest, I’m looking for places I don’t have to put in synthetic fertilizers, and this is a great way to do it and the crops that I am going to be able to grow this year on the land that was grazed last year, I’m going to be able to we reduce the amount of fertilizer I put on there. So yes, this is absolutely for everyone. We’re really hoping that grain farmers across the board, organic, regenerative, whoever whoever wants to get in on involved in it should be able to get in.

Gord Gilmour: [00:09:48] So tell me a little bit, if you could, then, Karen, about what should farmers who are interested in either grazing or offering pasture land due to prepare for this?

Karen Klassen: [00:09:56] Yeah, it’s a it is a learning curve. There’s lots of different components involved. We have some resources on on the website and there’s lots of resources out there actually and conferences. In fact, I’m going to plug my own podcast so I help produce the Grain on the Brain podcast, which is hosted by the lovely farmer Scott Beaton, who’s up in Elie. And he actually has integrated livestock on his own land, and he went out and bought his own cattle, so he went and did it all himself. But we actually did an episode on this last season where we talked to someone who’s doing this exact grazing exchange thing in Alberta. So we have resources like that. We’re going to be doing farm tours. There’s lots of reading material available, and we’re actually going to be helping out with some training, facilitating training workshops. And this is going to happen across Canada on rotational grazing and cover cropping. And that’s going to be coming up in the next couple of months. We’re going to be announcing this that just to get people learning a little bit more about it. So this isn’t so daunting. I think for myself, what I would say is, you know, do some reading, but don’t don’t overthink it. Just get or if you have some land and you’ve been, you know, thinking about it for a little bit, or if you have some cattle and you’re you don’t want to haul them hundreds of miles away, just put a pin on the map, log in. It’s really simple to use and then get it started. And for myself, I know it’s just a matter of it’s a huge learning curve, but it’s it’s quite fun. And every year you learn it’s like everything in farming. You learn from the last year and you improve the next year. And so the only way to really get get learning and get the resources is by doing it. I mean, you can read all you want, but it’s a little different when you’re out in the field and and actually have the cattle back on the land.

Gord Gilmour: [00:11:49] Well, great thanks, Karen, for taking us through that.

Karen Klassen: [00:11:52] No problem, thanks for having me, and thanks for helping to promote this. This is great.

Gord Gilmour: [00:12:19] That was Farmer and Manitoba Organic Alliance executive director Karen Klassen. You can find the grazing exchange online at Manitoba Grazing Exchange, that’s all one word Manitobagrazingexchange.com. This is Gord Gilmour, and I’m your host this week on Between the Rows. Much of Canada, and especially the prairies, was gripped by drought this past summer. Now parts of the country are looking at average to above average snowfall this winter and wondering is this the end of the drought? Trevor Hadwen is an agro climate specialist with the Federal Agriculture Department. He joins us now to discuss the snowfall and what he’s watching as winter slowly grinds along toward spring. Trevor, thanks for joining us today.

Trevor hadwen: [00:13:13] Very nice to be here.

Gord Gilmour: [00:13:15] So after last summer, everyone’s pretty excited about the snow we’ve accumulated Over much of the country. How does that snowfall stack up against a quote unquote normal year?

Trevor hadwen: [00:13:26] Yeah, we’re starting to see some accumulations above normal in some regions of the prairies. Specifically, the northern agricultural regions are receiving more than normal precipitation, which is great, and eastern Manitoba has also received more than normal. But there’s large portions of the prairie region that are still well below normal, both in terms of their moisture this winter and in terms of the snowpack. So there’s still a lot of concern out there.

Gord Gilmour: [00:13:56] And now, even for the areas that have that snowpack, that’s a little bit better. Does that necessarily translate into recharge soil moisture in the spring? What kind of melt are we going to need to see to actually get some of this to soak in?

Trevor hadwen: [00:14:08] Yeah. So there’s a challenge with that. Right now we’re we’re in a situation where we have both soil moisture deficits as well as surface water deficits. And depending on how that snow melts this spring, we will likely help recharge one or possibly both of those. But if we get a slow melt that usually goes into the soil, if we get a really quick melt that usually ends up either in dug outs or in stream beds. And we need recharging of both of those. But for most producers, I think they would much rather have that soak into the soil at this point.

Gord Gilmour: [00:14:48] And does that kind of tell the tale of how dire that drought was last summer, then that we were in that deficit in both of them?

Trevor hadwen: [00:14:56] Yeah, absolutely. The 2021 drought situation was extremely severe and we’re still dealing with that right across the prairie region. We still have widespread severe drought classification and and some areas in either exceptional or extreme conditions still. So that’s very abnormal for winter period. And we typically get a fall recharge, pulling those or pulling the prairie region out of an extreme or exceptional drought situation. But this year, we haven’t seen as big of a recharge. We’re starting to see a little bit, but we’ve had a number of years back to back of dry conditions and that that buildup of drought has really caused a lot of issues and we’re not going to get out of it real quick.

Gord Gilmour: [00:15:45] And that’s actually my next question. You know, I look out at the very high snow banks in front of my house right now and, you know, it looks a little bit hopeful. It looks like we may have kind of begun to work our way out of this dry cycle we’ve been stuck in. But is that the case? It sounds like maybe not.

Trevor hadwen: [00:16:02] Certainly not at this point. We’ve got to remember that that snow that is sitting in front of your house is is potential moisture for both soil moisture and for stream flow. But that snow also has the potential to evaporate or sublimate through the winter period and certainly has the chance to to not provide a whole lot of recharge during the spring. So especially for some of the areas in Alberta, southwest Saskatchewan and even southwestern Manitoba, we’re seeing that snow packs are not above normal and we’ve got large, large deficits from the previous two years of dry conditions. So we’re hopeful that will receive a lot more moisture in the winter period. As well as the real key is going to be that spring moisture. If we can get a good rain or a good late snowfall in the spring, that will provide a lot more moisture to the soil moisture as we go forward.

Gord Gilmour: [00:17:04] And that’s actually my last question for you and maybe an unfair one, because I think it might be a little hard to judge. But how much precipitation will it take to officially, so to speak? Break us out of this drought.

Trevor hadwen: [00:17:18] Yeah, that is certainly a hard to judge, just because there’s so many variables and and when we talk about drought, not everyone thinks of drought the same way a meteorologist, for example, is just lack of precipitation or a deficit from normal. Where we’re talking about an agricultural producer that’s dealing with crops is is probably talking about soil moisture. And when we talk about livestock producers or hydrologists or water managers, we’re talking about the the on surface water supplies or even groundwater. So it really depends on where we’re we’re talking and it depends on how much we want to get out of drought in terms of the hydrological cycle or just the soil moisture itself. So we’re looking better for the soil moisture moving into the year we still have. If you’re looking at long term cycles, if you’re looking at the last two years, we’re still looking at approximately three to four hundred millimeters below normal in some regions of the prairies over the two years. So that’s a huge number to try to make up. We’re certainly not going to make it up all at once and and those water supplies are going to be depressed for a while. Soil moisture can bounce back a lot quicker. So again, we kind of have to start to forget about some of the the history of the deficit when we’re talking soil moisture and look at how much moisture it takes to recharge that soil going forward. And we have a much better chance of doing that. The big challenge that we have going forward, though, is that the entire region is doesn’t have a surplus of moisture. We don’t have that bank that we really rely on quite often during those summer hot periods or those longer extended periods without rainfall. So we’re a little bit more vulnerable than we typically are going into a growing season just because we don’t have those reserves in the soil and the short term dryness and the the short term heat will affect our annual crops much more this year than they normally would, just because we don’t have those reserves in place.

Gord Gilmour: [00:19:29] Well, thank you very much for taking the time to run us through some of that. There’s a lot of variables there I wasn’t aware of.

Trevor hadwen: [00:19:35] Yeah, it’s great to be here. Thank you very much.

Gord Gilmour: [00:19:46] That was Trevor Hadwen, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada agro climate specialist. This is Between the Rows, the podcast of Glacier Farm Media. I’m this week’s host, Gord Gilmour, editor of the Manitoba Cooperator. We turn now to the world of mental health. It’s a concept that’s gained a lot of attention in recent years. There are crisis lines for farmers, and there are long term advocacy efforts. But one group says there’s a need somewhere in the middle. For one on one mental health services tailored for farmers, the Manitoba Farmer Wellness Program aims to fill that void, and journalist Lisa Guenther of Canadian Cattlemen spoke recently to one of the founders, Gerry Friesen. Here’s that conversation.

Lisa Guenther: [00:20:36] Ok, so just to start with Gerry, just tell me a little bit about the Manitoba Farmer Wellness program.

Gerry Friesen: [00:20:43] Ok. The Farmer Wellness program Lisa was set up to to provide, I guess ultimately it would be in-person counseling. Now, of course, agriculture is widespread across Manitoba and it may not be feasible to do it in person, but we can now do things like this virtually, and it’ll also be accessible by by telephone. So really what it is, at least as we’re filling a gap, I guess for lack of a better term, perhaps we know that there’s in Manitoba, there’s a Manitoba farm in rural distress line. We know that Boomer Ag is working on National Crisis Line, and this is something that’s one step further to that where where we’re like I said before, it will provide counseling for farmers. So. So I envision that that that farmers can reach out on their own. But I can also envision that these farm stress lines will be referring farmers to our program. 

Lisa Guenther: And how did the program or the idea for the program come about? 

Gerry Friesen: You know, that’s a good question. It started just over a year ago, I believe, when when a few people were interested in this, there’s a program such as this on Prince Edward Island, which has been up for, oh, I think, probably 10 years. There’s one in Ontario and that started and I believe it’s in seven counties now. It started a couple of years ago. So this is mirrored off of those and we saw how successful or what a service they were providing in those other jurisdictions and how farmers were were taking availing themselves of it. Anecdotally, we heard that I believe it was in 2019 on Prince Edward Island. Out of 1200 farmers, they have two hundred and ninety avail themselves of the program. So that tells me that tells us that, that it’s a very valuable program to have for farmers.

Lisa Guenther: [00:22:46] Yeah, certainly. Tell us a little bit about the need that you say that you see, like you said, there are some gaps that you’re trying to fill with this program.

Gerry Friesen: [00:22:54] Well, yeah, there’s that gap. One of the one of the issues that has often arisen in the past is accessibility for farmers to see a professional long distances to travel if they need to see someone. What’s happening quite often and I’ve heard this from numerous people, as is when they do find a professional to talk to, that professional is not aware of the intricacies of farming. And so. So this is going to be a service provided by counselors who have a background in agriculture and and perhaps not as much in the farming part of it, but certainly aware of of what agriculture is, what the what the various stressors are, that farmers face that the rest of the demographics don’t. And so and again, like I say, it’s not going to be limited to an eight hour a day. It’s going to be available evenings and weekends as well. So so we want to really try and and service an industry, a group of people that have hard working hours like we well know.

Lisa Guenther: [00:24:01] Yeah, certainly, I’m sure that’s very challenging, especially during the busy times of year.

Gerry Friesen: [00:24:06] Yes, for sure. Absolutely. And again, like we know, stress and farming isn’t getting less. Dr Andrea Jones Bitton from the University of Guelph, did a survey in 2016. I believe it was. And what was really amazed or astounded me or really concerned me about the numbers she came up with is, for example, that revealed that 58 percent of those surveyed would qualify for an anxiety classification, which means that if they went to a professional, they’d be diagnosed with an anxiety disorder. And that’s a very significant number. And there were other numbers involved in that as well, which which just really shows a need for for this type of service.

Lisa Guenther: [00:24:52] Yes, certainly. So for those so you mentioned, the ideally people would be able to go in person and as well as by phone. Is there going to be a zoom Function possibly to?

Gerry Friesen: [00:25:06] Yeah, absolutely. Like we just talked about before we started Lisa. Virtual face to face meetings like this and become somewhat of a norm in the last two years and as much as face to face would be preferable. This still is this type of platform is still better than than by telephone, for example. So. So again, yes, we’re not going to be able to, at least not at the outset, provide counselors that. So it’s not going to be, you know, long drives for farmers, for example, to avail themselves of. So at least at the outset, we’re going to be offering all three three options.

Lisa Guenther: [00:25:50] And I think what was a start date Gerry was at March 2nd.

Gerry Friesen: [00:25:55] What we’re hoping to have the counseling piece up and going by March 1st, the availability. Of course, we did go live with our website a week ago. I guess it is now. And of course, our next step or two steps is number one finding sponsors for this program. And then secondly, also to to retain the services of at least three counselors. Ok.

Lisa Guenther: [00:26:24] Anything else you want to add about this program that we haven’t covered already?

Gerry Friesen: [00:26:28] No, just that that I wish people that are interested in in the service can already avail themselves of the website at www.ManitobaFarmerWellness.ca. Visit the website. Find out what it’s all about because I know and I know this from personal experience that when you’re when you’re dealing with mental health issues, it’s good to to familiarize yourself a little bit with what’s available to get a level of comfort that this is something that you want to pursue. And then then also if there’s any questions they can reach out at this point. There’s an email address, there’s a phone number for people to reach out if they want, but to get ready for it on March 1st.

Lisa Guenther: [00:27:12] Okay. Well, thank you very, very much and best of luck with this program. It’s really Important.

Gerry Friesen: [00:27:16]. Thanks a lot, Lisa. Anytime.

Gord Gilmour: [00:27:25] That was Lisa Guenther of Canadian Cattlemen in conversation with Manitoba Farmer Wellness Program founding organizer Gerry Friesen. And that’s another edition of Between the Rows. But one thing before we go Glacier Farm Media, along with other partner organizations, is hosting a series of agricultural cybersecurity webinars. The next one is February 17th. There you can hear cybersecurity experts talk about the great promise and added risks of some of the latest food production technology. If you’re interested in registering, visit the Western Producer website at producer.com. There you’ll find a link that will take you to registration right at the top of their home page. I’m Gord Gilmour saying so long for now, and we hope that you’ll join us again next week.

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