Pandemic border protests, a ‘planetary’ podcast about cattle

The Alberta border protest has disrupted the cattle industry, affecting feed supplies and movement of livestock in and out of that province. Western Producer reporter Alex McCuaig has been covering the protest since it began and says it’s much different from what’s happening in our nation’s capital, Ottawa. Also, Kim Stanford, a University of Lethbridge scientist, hopes to bring some balance to the cattle debate in a new podcast called, Cows on the Planet. Hosted by Robert Arnason.

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Robert Arnason: [00:00:06] Hello and welcome to Between the Rows. I’m Robert Arneson of the Western Producer. Your host for this week’s show, whether you support it or oppose it, it’s clear that the border protests in Alberta has disrupted the province’s cattle industry. Some feedlots have been running short of feed and slaughter plants are struggling to transport products across the border into the U.S.. Alberta Premier Jason Kenney has ended the province’s vaccine passport system, but protesters might be sticking around. On today’s episode, we’ll speak with a reporter who has been covering the border protest since it began.

Alex McCuaig: [00:00:43] Right now, I mean, the protesters on the ground are, you know, it doesn’t matter what government announcement happens at a future ending up regulations they say they’re committed to on staying there until the pandemic restrictions are lifted.

Robert Arnason: [00:01:03] Also, the global cattle industry has larger problems, as many people now believe that cows are the main cause of climate change. And Alberta scientists wants to rebalance the debate over cows by providing factual information about cows and the health of the planet.

Speaker3: [00:01:20] We’re picking contentious issues and and trying to give a give both sides of the story so that there’s better information for people to make their own decisions

Robert Arnason: [00:01:32] Before we begin. Let’s hear a word from our sponsor.

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Robert Arnason: [00:02:11] First up, Alex McCuaig, a reporter with the Western Producer in Medicine Hat, has spent most of the last 10 days covering the protests near the U.S. border in Alberta. Like many Canadians, Alex isn’t sure when this protest will end, but it’s clear to him that the protest is different from what’s happening in Ottawa. I spoke to Alex on February 8th around lunchtime, so the situation at the border may have changed.

Robert Arnason: [00:02:36] We know that there’s been an impact from the protest on Alberta’s livestock industry. Can you just talk about that a bit? What have you learned about the consequences of this protest?

Alex McCuaig: [00:02:50] So it’s not exactly clear, exact economic impacts. There’s feedlot operators right now that are already struggling with getting feed to their cattle. You know, the larger, the more acute the problem is, the larger the feedlot, the more acute the problem is, you know, shipments are coming of grain or coming up from the states on train. But there’s a lot of feed, such as distillers dried grain, which a lot of that comes up north from by commercial trucking, canfax. I mean, for the week ending January, it was reporting a 118 percent increase in live cattle shipments south. You know, it’s not clear exactly what’s JBS and Cargill are doing with their production. I’m hearing a lot of talk of it’s been slowed down and that will how slow that will get is dependent on what happens at the border this week, for sure. And it’s there’s definitely a it’s going to impact people, whether they’re feeling it right now today. Maybe not, but you know, there’s a lot of space in those feedlots that, you know, there are a lot of pens that were expected to be empty this month might have been occupied a bit longer. And that just compounds some of the issues.

Robert Arnason: [00:04:33] Right.So the point being the point being is that if you’re a feedlot operator and Cargill or JBS are not buying animals for slaughter right now because they reduce their capacity for whatever reason, then you’re stuck with a larger herd for a longer time in a situation where feed costs are high or there’s not feed available. So it’s a really difficult situation.

Alex McCuaig: [00:04:55] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you’re already dealing with on the trucking side, you’re dealing with some issues. I mean, it’s on the trucking side. I mean, even before the new cross-border pandemic restrictions came into effect, I mean, you’re dealing with increased regulatory regime that came out of the Humboldt crash. So you’ve already got, you know, an extra layer of paperwork to do there. And then then you’ve got this added issue of a shortage or the existing shortage of drivers. And then on top of that, you have another hurdle to the trucking industry with the mandates for cross-border travel and the need for vaccinations of truckers.

Robert Arnason: [00:05:41] So you’ve been reaching out to some agriculture groups, groups that represent the beef industry and the livestock industry, but it seems like some of these groups are reluctant to comment on the protest. What’s your sense of why that is?

Alex McCuaig: [00:05:59] Well, I think in the agricultural sector, I mean, they’ve gone through lots with both the drought and the pandemic. They want to get back to a sense of normalcy, at least, you know, at least only having to deal with one problem at one time. Not not a multitude of issues. You know, it’s there’s definitely support for getting rid of the mandates. You know, there’s not I wouldn’t say the producer organizations in any stretch of the imagination are fully backing this blockade accounts. I think they see that this has impacts to the industry at large, but at the same time, they understand that producers are and they sympathize with the fact that producers want this situation with the pandemic restrictions to end. So, you know, they’re kind of caught in the middle there. I mean, they see the effects, but they also need to represent their producers as well. And so it’s it’s a tough I think they’re trying to thread the needle there on how to deal with this issue.

Robert Arnason: [00:07:12] Ok, well, the conversation now in Ottawa and I guess the other protests going on around the country is, you know, how does this end? How does this protest or this scenario end in a peaceful manner? Does anybody in Alberta have that answer?

Alex McCuaig: [00:07:31] I don’t think so. And it’s not just how this ends, it’s it’s what what I’ll be looking for is what happens when the next protest group comes down and and might look at Coutts as a place they might want to look at to stage their protest. Right. Right now, I mean, the protesters on the ground are, you know, it doesn’t matter what government announcement happens about future ending up regulations they say they’re committed to on staying there until the pandemic restrictions are lifted. So regardless of what happens if we’ve got Premier Jason Kenney expected to talk today about the timelines, the protest groups down there are saying, regardless of what he says, they’re down there until the mandates are lifted. And so that might that seems to be the endpoint of this. But I’ll be looking at the issues in long term as well, because this is there are groups that might see this as a blueprint to how to get government to act and whether it’s because of public health restrictions or because of land claims or because of environmental policy. You know, it’s endless. But what will likely be different is is that, you know, this protest really is being well supported by the local population, so we’ll see in the future. But there’s some issues here that I think will last for a long time going forward.

Robert Arnason: [00:09:24] Ok, thanks, Alex. I’ve been speaking with Alex McCuaig, a reporter with the Western Producer in Medicine Hat, who has been covering the border protests in Alberta.

Robert Arnason: [00:09:53] Next up, media coverage of cattle in the environment has shifted towards the negative, highly negative in the last year. Headlines have said that cattle are the new coal and that cows are destroying the world’s wildlife. Kim Stanford, a University of Lethbridge scientist, wants to provide a more balanced picture of cattle through a podcast called Cows on the Planet. I spoke with Kim from her office in Lethbridge.

Robert Arnason: [00:10:20] Hey, Kim, thanks for coming on, Between the Rows, I really appreciate it.

Kim Stanford: [00:10:26] Glad to be here, Robert.

Robert Arnason: [00:10:28] So let’s talk about Cows on the Planet podcast. Can you explain sort of how this came about and why you’re part of this podcast?

Kim Stanford: [00:10:39] Well, it came about because the group that’s involved in producing the podcast, which is me, Tim McAllister of Agriculture Canada and Kim Ominsky from the University of Manitoba. We’d all been noticing that there was some pretty one. We’ll call it one-sided information appearing about cattle and beef in in the media, and we wanted to instead, you know, we want to present the good and the bad, but a balanced perspective so that it’s it’s like useful information for people that might have some questions about where they’re where their food is coming from.

Robert Arnason: [00:11:24] So what what were some of the stories or coverage that you found quite concerning? Was it the story about comparing, I guess, cows or the new coal or what really stood out for you? That’s being that’s being unbalanced?

Kim Stanford: [00:11:41] We did one of our first episodes is actually about greenhouse gases produced by cattle compared to to other sources, and it’s all about how it’s how it’s weighted. So yes, cattle cattle do produce methane, but they do not produce more greenhouse gases than all transportation and food. Other food production and everything all combined like you see things in the media that are giving like quite ridiculous numbers for some stuff. A podcast that we’re just going to record today is about how much cattle are contributing to deforestation in the Amazon. And if you look on some sources, you’ll find, OK, cattle are like, they’re the main drivers, they’re the ones. It’s just grazing cattle that’s leading to deforestation of the Amazon. But we’re going to be talking to a scientist from Brazil that spent the last 50 years or more studying all the different causes of deforestation in the Amazon. And we know that cattle are involved, but it’s not, you know, there’s others. It’s not that simple. Usually, it’s there’s quite a bit of oversimplification and and put put the blame on on cattle when it may not totally be totally be justified, although they’re definitely contributors.

Robert Arnason: [00:13:15] So can you just tell me about some of the other topics that you’ve covered so far? And I guess second question, are you mostly speaking with fellow scientists?

Kim Stanford: [00:13:26] We have spent spoke to a number of scientists, but it’s any anyone who’s an expert in their in their field. So they’re not not all, all scientists. We’ve a recent podcast was was the the relationship between cows and fish. Can you graze cattle and not not damage fish populations and in surrounding wetlands? And not so that’s our most recently released podcast. Another couple of recent ones, one on. Should we be eating meat that’s grown in the lab? That was that was an eye opener for me because I’m not an expert in in lab grown meat and the the researcher who was had more, more concerns than I than I’d even thought about that things that have to be some, some basically scientific questions that have to be solved before it becomes at all commercially viable, which is different from what you’re what is being presented by companies that are trying to get basically venture capital funding to produce lab grown meat. So you’re just hearing really fantastic stuff when it’s it’s not quite that easy.

Robert Arnason: [00:14:52] So again, getting back to the motivation, just to be clear on this, you know, it’s difficult for a scientist be in a position where you’re kind of like defending the status quo or defending the industry. That’s not that’s not what this is about.

Kim Stanford: [00:15:07] No, no. We don’t want. It’s not just a good news story that the cattle are just nothing but wonderful and and eat more beef and everything will be rosy. No, we. You want to present both sides of the story, like I said, in many ways, it seems like the really negative aspect of cattle and beef production, that’s what is is being largely taken up by the media. So we we want to look into some well, we’re picking contentious issues and and trying to give a give both sides of the story so that there’s better information for people to make their own decisions.

Robert Arnason: [00:15:53] Ok. And so who would you describe as your target audience for this podcast or are you trying to reach?

Kim Stanford: [00:16:00] Oh, just any anyone. Just the Canadians. We’re targeting Canadians, but Canadian adults now. Stuff not so targeted

Robert Arnason: [00:16:15] Because his audience pretty broad. Target. Ok.

Kim Stanford: [00:16:17] Yes. Yeah, no, we’re not. We’re trying to make it, and we try not to have it to like, have it’s heavy. It’s not trying to make it so that it’s understand that anyone can understand it and then try to throw in a little bit of humor, too, to keep it, keep it a bit light and try to be a bit entertaining. Not you can’t try too hard or that doesn’t work either. But uh. Tried to just keep it light.

Robert Arnason: [00:16:43] So you started doing this, I think in the summer of 2021. So have you had any kind of response yet from fellow scientists or Canadians? What have you heard back?

Kim Stanford: [00:16:56] Well, we haven’t had a lot of feedback to tell you. The truth is that a little bit had some people saying that they liked individual episodes. We haven’t. We’ve had a few naysayers saying that that are, you know, this is all just really biased. La la la la la. So there’s different the different factions, I guess, come out. That was our most negative responses were when we interviewed someone from the in the U.S. who was talking about grazing, grazing on public lands. So he and there’s a group of aunties like there should be no livestock on Public Lands Group and we kind of ran into that without even knowing that that was even going to happen. So.

Robert Arnason: [00:17:51] Ok, last question here. So bigger picture this. I’m not sure I would call it negative media coverage or a lot of journalists sort of like really questioning or maybe even condemning cattle production. This has happened over the last, you know, 5, 10 or 15 years. This is not new. You know, this is going to take quite a bit of effort and information to kind of get a more balanced perspective out there. I mean, your podcast is just a small part of that. Do you feel do you feel do you feel hopeful that it is possible to get more of a balanced story out there about raising cattle and beef production?

Kim Stanford: [00:18:38] Well, I think I think I think the scientists you’ve got to try, you’ve got. You can’t just sit back and and let some of this really like you listen to it and you think, Oh holy crap, doodles like you’re sitting there eating your breakfast and and you know that there’s another side of the story. Or or sometimes it’s partly factual and it sounds really, you know, it sounds really good. And then it kind of goes down another garden path that that making some assumptions that maybe they just don’t know. Like they don’t know some of the aspects about about cattle production or making assumptions that are incorrect and kind of running with that.

Robert Arnason: [00:19:29] Ok. So to paraphrase you, kind of feel this is your responsibility as a scientist to kind of be part of the conversation.

Kim Stanford: [00:19:38] Yeah, yeah. And I’m I’m an old beat up scientist, so I’m pretty close to retirement. I’ve been been around the block a few times, so got lots of experience and, you know, involved in a lot of different aspects of of research on beef cattle and and my collaborators as well. So we’ve got lots of years of experience behind us. So let’s let’s try to try to use it to to give some better scientific information

Robert Arnason: [00:20:12] Absolutely last one. How long do you plan to continue the Cows on the Planet podcast? Is this like a. Multiyear project, or what’s the objective here?

Kim Stanford: [00:20:23] Yeah, we’re we’re going to have a commitment to make 36 podcasts and then after that, I don’t know. There’s there’s only one way we’re going to try to tackle all of the the issues that we can really see that are important. And after that, I don’t know. Maybe that’s enough cattle specific podcasts. So the future is still kind of undecided, but definitely will. We’ve got to finish out this year with podcast production. And then I guess, I guess we see, 

Robert Arnason: [00:21:04] OK.All right, Kim. I’ve been speaking with Kim, Stanford University of Lethbridge scientist and one of the hosts of the Cows on the Planet podcast. Thanks, Kim.

Kim Stanford: [00:21:13] Yes! Good talking to you.

Robert Arnason: [00:21:14] Thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate it.

Robert Arnason: [00:21:25] Well, that’s it for this week’s show. But before I go. Glacier Farm Media and partner organizations are hosting a series of cybersecurity webinars. The next one is on February 17th. There you can hear about some of the benefits and some of the risks of the latest food production technologies. For more information, please go to the Western Producer website at Producer.com. There is a link at the top of the page to register for the webinar. I’m Robert Arneson of the Western Producer. Thanks for listening.

Commercial: [00:22:05] You know, not all nitrogen works as hard as I do my ESN polymer coating means I can stay out in the field longer, up to 80 days. Those other guys, huh? First, hot wind or heavy rain. And they’re out there scared of soil, bacteria and standing water, too, but not me. It’s why ESN is the leading controlled release nitrogen in broad acre agriculture. See for yourself. Just check out smartnitrogen.com

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